It's not worth uploading new companies

[TheHammers]

40 penalty points against me,  yet again. It's time consuming uploading a company as it is but to then have people following you around changing sub-categories to earn their points at a cost of -10 penalty points to myself, it's just not worth the effort.

This has happened to me consistenty and I'm finally fed-up with it.

I don't have a suggestion to what the fix is, and I'm not going to appeal because that would just make more work for somebody else, who let's face it, would come down on the side of the person stalking new company uploads.

I really enjoy using Jigsaw and I have uploaded tons of new companies, but new companiesare just easy targets for people making minor changes and that affects MY rating.

[PastHail74]

I've had the same problem in the past! 

Today I still upload new companies. Here is how my strategy changed. So far the new plan is  working. 

1. Subcategories. Now focusing more on Industries I have exp with. I'm selling in the IT space so I understand the Sub-categories very well. 

2. Started being more selective on my adds in the area's of Mergers, acquisitions, subsidiaries, Industries Sub-c I have no exp with, HQ is International and not in the JigSaw country list.   "If I don't have a clear understanding of the over all company profile, I simply don't add or update in JigSaw.  You will get a Penalty!!!

[TheHammers]

Good points my friend.

I can probably get over somebody else profiting from my initial upload but for me to be penalized every time is seriously annoying.

Best of luck, PastHail74!

[Stingray]

@TheHammers.

I feel your pain on this issue.

Rest assured that on the last DataDefender call this issue has been raised and it has serious visibility within the Jigsaw support and product development teams.   I am confident that this issue will be addressed shortly.

In the interim I'd ask that you have continued patience.   Fixes and/or changes in policy can sometimes take time.  

To clarify, I am just a DataDefender, I do not speak on behalf of Jigsaw.  I just figured that it being a holiday/long weekend, that folks would want to hear that Jigsaw is aware of the issue and from where I'm sitting as a fellow user, I'm confident it will be addressed shortly.

If you feel that another user is committing abuse with these company changes, feel free to private their name to me and I will investigate for abuse.

Thanks again for bringing this to my attention.  I will also see that this thread gets forwarded to those assessing the impact of this issue and who are busy reviewing the situation.

[AlanSmithee]

What you have to remember is that the quickest way to legitimately accumulate points is by correctly updating industry.  Often it is not correct and there is a better choice.  Once I started fixing categories everytime I saw one that wasnt accurate, I started racking up points.  If you only update a few records infrequently, yes, your rating will take a hit.  But if you accumulate a lot of points for activity, your positive data contributions will outweigh the negative rating.  I went from 97-99% despite multiple -10 penalties because my positive data updates far outweighed and offset the penalties.  I was initially concerned about the penalties for updating companies as well until I realized that while being penalized a half dozen times a month, my rating didnt get lowered.  Keep an eye on your rating, if it goes down a percentage, then you may have a reason to question the system.  Until then, I would still make updates and add companies as your concerns about negative rating have yet to manifest.  I was on the same DD call with Stingray addressing such ratings & penalties. They are aware of the concerns you have (we all have had them at one point) and they are making efforts to address it in the new release of the website which will gradually be rolled out over summer before being fully implemented by Fall.

[facepainters]

I rely on all fields being as accurate as possible, including # of employees and industry, not just names and titles.  So entering ALL information correctly is the way to keep your points and royalties.

Example - i dont now how many company addresses i've corrected, especially PO Boxes.

the updates i make are legit.  certainly if you have someone consistantly changing information just to get points, i would report it and make your case to get points and ratings back.

[TheHammers]

@facepainters - I'm not looking for an argument but I was very aware somebody would respond telling me to A) enter accurate details and B) appeal. It's not as easy as ensuring you enter the information accurately. As somebody said above, there are people trawling around making these easy amendments so they get the ratings quicker. And I already said above I'm not going to appeal. I'd be appealing just about every day if I had the energy, but I don't

My inbox this morning had lost royalty points and here is a breakdown of the "contributions" from one of the users who made amendments to my royalty contacts:

Contacts Added: 6

Contacts Updated: 1,829

Companies Added: 1

Company Updates: 129

Are you telling me that person is "contributing" to Jigsaw? I know you're going ot say they're making contacts more accurate but are they? I would say the only action they're taking is to make enough changes to excellerate to Rainmaker.

I understand your point regarding accuracy but it's still a flaw if people are using these changes to increase their ranking.

[Stingray]

As a DataDefender, I have looked at theHammers stuff, and accuracy is not the issue here.  This user contributes good stuff.

What the problem is relates more to policy and the policing of that policy.  Let me explain.

First the policy.   Unlike contacts where the information is cut and dry, either you have the exact phone number or you don't; company info is much more subjective.   With privately held companies, who do not have to make their financials public, how are we going to determine who is right or wrong.  Don't even get me started on the flaws existant in our company classification system.    Yet the current policy states that if even one element of a company's expanded record, in comparison to a contact record) gets modified within a 30 day window, whether you added the company or just edited the company record; you get penalized.   Some of these changes could be fraudulent, some not; who is to say?

The policy on company records penalties should be brought into alignment with contact records.   First extend the penalty period to 45 days, giving we DataDefenders additional time to catch outright abuse.   Second, penalize folks only if a company record is graveyarded within 45 days of a company update or addition.   I repeat this is only my opinion, but I believe it would do a lot to re-encourage user like "theHammers" to continue to contribute their valuable new company information to the database.

Considering the additional time it takes to enter company records in the first place, a little leniancy on the classification categories should be instituted to foster increased data flow in this area.   Additional new company information is vital to the continued growth of Jigsaw; but currently the inherent risks of doing so far outweigh the rewards.   

"TheHammers" decision to stop adding companies and instead focus on other areas, is at this time, unfortunately, the logical move.

But as I said before, Jigsaw is aware of this problem, and will be addressing it shortly.

Stay tuned.

[TheHammers]

@Stingray - I do like the points you make and especially only being penalized if a company is moved to the graveyard.

I actually failed miserably in my threat to stop uploading companies because as time consuming and unreward as they are; I come across so many companies not already loaded into JIgsaw. This is where I choose between being selfish and wanting Jigsaw to have as many companies on record as possible. So I cave-in and upload. Obviously it doesn't stop me receiving penalties but I guess I'll learn to live with it if, as you saw, it's being looked in to. What is worse, is that most of my company uploads are loaded directly from the addresses given on the website I"m uploading. So I come away feeling all confident that I won't receive a penalty but low and behold...

I hope your suggestions are put into practice, Stringray. I do think there needs to be an eventual change. Because I do still think it's a major flaw that somebody can come along after me and change a category in a few seconds or whatever else and not only receive 5pts, but receive it as a rating, have me penalized 10 points, and have MY rating challenge/turned into a lower percentage. And personally, I honestly don't like 'appealing'. I think I might have only appealed once; when somebody put a company to the graveyard after I had loaded them into Jigsaw while I was sitting inside the office of the company having a coffee. When it's that ridiculous, I simply don't have the energy.

These people are spoiling an extremely good product.

[Stingray]

@TheHammers,

Glad to hear that you have decided to keep contributing your new companies to the database!   

As for appealing...   I would continue to appeal vigorously ANY and ALL incorrect changes to your data contributions.   For that is the only tool we have to stop abuse.

Further, if you notice a pattern of one user who graveyards good companies please bring that user to the attention of myself or anyone of the other DataDefenders.   We will examine the users activities and if there is a pattern of intentional abuse, we will lock them out.   Period.  That's what we do.

Thanks too for your continued patience and trust in the system.   Nothing in life is ever perfect.  But here we have a forum to not only voice our concerns with what is wrong with the system today and get it fixed.   But in the Member Information Exchange or MIX we also have a forum to suggest new ideas to improve the product we use everyday.  

As a DataDefender I have attended a couple meetings over the last two weeks, where it was made obvious to me that Jigsaw's product management team gets it.   They understand that user feedback is important and they ask us for our opinions constantly.   While a lot of this user/software designer collaboration goes on behind the scenes, you'll be seeing the results between now and Vegas.

Speaking of Vegas, if you have the opportunity of attending this year's Rainmaker event, I would strongly encourage you to do so.   Last year product management shined, as they presented the new product features and outlined in detail the plans they were putting in place to improve overall data quality.  Most informative were the Q&A sessions.   And I have to hand it to product management, they stood front and center and handled each question put to them.  Some questions were heated and yet they kept their cool.   After the formal Q&A and during the breaks, let me emphasize, during the breaks, you could see the same product managers further discussing the hot topics with numerous passionate users and still more opinions gathering around.

Remember chemistry class in high school?   Placing a substance or two in a crucible and adding some heat?   You ended up with a new substance that was stronger.

That's how I view Jigsaw.  Jigsaw itself is the substance, the product.   The Jigsaw employees are the catalyst, the change agents, the ingredient that makes things happen.   We users, we're the heat.   The fuel for change.   Remove anyone component and the whole equation falls flat.   Yet within this crucible we call a community, things change, new ideas are forged in the presence of heat to solve problems and the result is constant improvement.

As Jigsaw users we must always be aware, just as we were aware in chemistry class; that too much heat applied in a radical manner can have disastorous results.  Calm persistence, logical explanations of fact and potential implications of same will accomplish the change we all want to see.   Failure to show respect for all other users, Jigsaw employees and the current systems that we use today, could cause people to galvanize themselves to their current beliefs and methodolgies.   The end result?   

No change.  No forging.   No progress.

Keep on forging ahead there, TheHammers.   I have to believe the change you seek is just around "The Corner."